Interviews > Joe Rivera-Vandal Squad
The Vandal Squad. They’ve been around for a hot minute. You know, they’re the police officers assigned to snatch up a lot of peoples for breaking the law. And the law says something about drawing words on other people’s property being against the law.
Vandal Squad, a new book by first time author and former Vandal Squad honcho Joseph Rivera (Miss Rosen/powerhouse) presents an interesting perspective. Now that he’s no longer running around the same train yards you do, Rivera’s got some things to say about the culture of writing and his experiences with the people who risk their freedom in order to let the world know that they were there.
Mr. Rivera likes to refer to writers as “vandals”—a distinction he continues to embrace as he eyes the shadows of his VS tour. Still, there’s a side of him that seemingly loves the culture, and here we get a glimpse of that rather personal emotion. Yo: Saster is starting to get deeper with it, son! And the time is ripe: this culture has a reach far beyond the World Wide Web—the playing field that anyone can get bizeeee on. Yo: Vandal Squad’s been listening to your conversations for years. Here’s your chance to hear how one of their most respected soldiers feels.
-Sherwin Williams
Saster: Do you think that cameras will one day replace hard workin’ Vandal Squad cops?
Mr. Rivera: Cameras are great, however, once you capture someone committing a crime you still need to do the leg work. So no, cameras will not replace Law Enforcement Officers.
Saster: Some folks argue that Graffiti writers keep Vandal Squad officers employed and healthy. If graffiti came to an end, what do you think would become of the Vandal Squad?
Mr. Rivera: There are all sorts of specialized units within the Police Department. These specialized units focus on the task that they are assigned to such as the “Vandal Squad” addressing vandalism in the city. Sure, graffiti vandals keep the unit busy–that’s why the unit was created. And history dictates that “Graffiti” will not end anytime soon. As a matter of fact “graffiti” is on the rise once again in the city, so dismantling a unit that addresses these issues would be extremely foolish to say the least. However, as we all know, anything is possible in New York City.
Saster: Do you think that the sentences that are being handed out for graffiti are reasonable or excessive? Is a two year sentence for graffiti—writing, specifically, on a train–is a just punishment?
Mr. Rivera: Taking extreme measures and imposing strict fines and penalties is exactly what should be done to individuals who refuse to abide by the law. I think we need to ask a victim of a vandalism incident if the punishment is just. We should ask them, after they spend hundreds, even thousands of dollars to restore their damaged property. Property, which was damaged by these poor misguided individuals. Community service helps but is definitely not the answer.
Saster: Do you believe that graffiti is an addiction? And if your answer is yes, how come there aren’t and programs to help rehabilitate or channel the energies of writers in a positive manner?
Mr. Rivera: Graffiti is definitely an addiction—it’s an addiction that just so happens to be illegal. Sure, I would like to see a program established to address this addiction, once created it just might help some of these individuals who can’t control themselves. I think channeling his or her energy in a positive manner would benefit anyone willing to be involved.
Saster: There aren’t any accounts of police abuse from your perspective in the book. Now that you’re retired, can you comment on situations that might have been somewhat unethical?
Mr. Rivera: I feel very comfortable saying that 99.999 percent of the police officers that are employed in New York City are extremely dedicated and hold great integrity. There is a minute portion of individuals who “shame the badge” so to speak, with their conduct. The fact remains police officers are stereotyped as being dishonest and cruel. People forget that the majority of police officers place their lives on the line everyday for the citizens of this great city. When was the last time a Police Officer was thanked for showing up to work!? Being a cop in NYC is a hard, stressful job with limited rewards.
Saster: How do you feel about the writers who once painted trains and have since gone on to find success in the world of graphic design, fashion, publishing, television, video games…websites like SASTER?
Mr. Rivera: These individuals have funneled their talent in the right direction. I still see “old school” graffiti vandals spray painting permission walls. Maybe these individuals who have had great success would like to share their experiences, both good and bad with these young graffiti vandals in an attempt to rescue these vandals from the street.
Saster: Now that you’re no longer on the force, have you maintained any friendships with some of the writers you once hunted?
Mr. Rivera: I really haven’t had any contact with anyone since I retired. Throughout my career I have always been respectful to those I have come in contact with. If I wasn’t respectful then you certainly did something to deserve it! I have respect for many vandals I have busted and I’m sure there are many vandals who respect me! (Wishful thinking!!!!)
Saster: It seems like you were dealing with a lot of politics while on the force—and while politics on the job is something most folks can relate to, it’s something most don’t consider when thinking about the world of law enforcement. How much did that scenario effect how you approached your work?
Mr. Rivera: Throughout my career, it was like riding a rollercoaster, in regards to the politics in the department. One day you reached the “top”–you made that great collar–the next day you were denied the shield. It was a struggle everyday to overcome the nonsense within the department and the unit itself. Young officers having no respect for the senior members who laid down the foundation so they can eventually reap the benefits… Unnecessary reorganization throughout the department…and finally, the “merge”, or the hostile takeover so to speak. I always managed to pick myself up and move forward, gaining more knowledge about graffiti–which made me a better cop.
Saster: There’s also the sense that officers in other branches of the force didn’t respect the job that the Vandal Squad did. Did you ever get into any confrontations with officers in other divisions of the force?
Mr. Rivera: During the transit years, the only confrontations that took place were on the softball field–and that’s where we left them! As officers, we took care of each other. There were some wise ass cops who would call us “crayon cops”; we would simply refer to them as assholes!
Saster: There have been many other noted and feared members of the Vandal Squad, but you were the first to write a book about the experience. Do you feel that there is resentment from other members of the force because of your book?
Mr. Rivera: I honestly have received nothing but praise in regards to the book; however, there are certain individuals who refuse to give credit when it’s due! Stop being Haters!!!!
Saster: It seems like the Vandal Squad has strategically targeted some of the bigger, more influential fish in the graffiti game. And those strategic take downs have seemingly broken the lifeline between generations past and the writers of today. Is that a triumph or a tragedy?
Mr. Rivera: Some of the young graffiti vandals today have no respect for the old school vandals. These individuals don’t respect their own parents, so how can we expect them to respect the old-timers?
Saster: Do you ever have the urge to paint a train yourself?
Mr. Rivera: I have no skills other then catching vandals, so I really don’t have a desire to paint trains. There are times when I observe something that looks appealing to paint; I simply shake my head and say, “If I was only a vandal.”
Saster:I was expecting more photos of the stuff that only the writers themselves and the vandal squad had the privilege of seeing. Were you unable to use more rare photos because they were property of the Vandal Squad?
I tried to provide the reader with several varieties of photos ranging from train hits to street hits. I wanted the reader to realize graffiti evolved from the subway, and made its way to the streets [editor’s note: it was actually the other way around, with graffiti on the streets in the late ‘60s going underground and all city via the trains]. The train hits were never seen by the public before, the Transit Authority doesn’t let bombed trains run.
Saster: You are a dedicated family man with a special needs child. In the book, you shared a slice of life that most writers don’t really consider when they’re writing things like “the vandal squad can suck my dick.” Did you ever feel a connection with writers on a human level?
Mr. Rivera: Absolutely. Some of the vandals I have come across were really down to Earth people. Some, I would have even hung out with and had some beers! Being a “cop” is really hard; the average civilian, when in your presence, tends to act differently. Police Officers live an everyday life just like everyone else, the only exception being a portion of their day they wear a uniform and enforce the law. Being a parent of an Autistic child has made me realize that you take for granted the simple things in life, such as reading, writing and communicating. Life is too short to carry anger or the burdens of stress. My family has rallied together to become strong, dedicated and loving to secure my child’s future. Some day, god willing, they will find a cure for Autism. My children are my inspiration, they are my driving force.
Saster: Has it been difficult transitioning into normal civilian life?
Mr. Rivera: Yes, it’s extremely hard at times to communicate. You have to definitely tone it down when dealing with stressful situations. I often hear my family members reminding me that I’m not a “cop” anymore.
Saster: What’s next for Joseph Rivera?
Mr. Rivera: Supporting my family is always first and foremost for me. I would, however, like to be involved in another project. I spent twenty years educating myself about graffiti so I guess I should stick to what I’m good at!
Saster: Who are your top five writers of all time and why?
Mr. Rivera: Seen, Revs, Sento, Sane (RIP), and Cope!
Seen has created some of the greatest whole-car, blockbuster subway cars in graffiti history and besides; he’s from my old neighborhood. Revs for his creativity. Sento and Sane for their persistent efforts in trying to keep subway graffiti alive! And Cope, who is by far the premier hard core bomber in NYC!
Saster: So you respect Sento and Sane for keeping subway graffiti alive? Interesting. Are you saying that you’re somewhat conflicted about graffiti? Because for a long time you were dedicated to stopping cats like them.
Mr. Rivera: I admired their persistent attempts to try to keep subway graffiti alive; even though the Vandal Squad existed, these individuals continued their attempts. For that, I give them credit! I won’t deny the fact that I have great interest in graffiti. I should. I spent Twenty years dealing with it!
Saster: What are your honest thoughts on Saster.net?
Mr. Rivera: I like web sites that provide truthful information, so Saster.net is on the money!
May 25th, 2009 at 12:56 am
HO HUM
May 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am
fuck the vandal squad…..its just a bunch of old bitches who were punked by taggers at one time so now they joined this shit 2 git back at them….
July 6th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
They never caught me
July 6th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Too many over rated riters look now too many toys, damn
August 29th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Yo joe blow…….you made some money off graff good for you …..now go and buy ya self a clue………..novacane kbc mobsta……all day……..
November 6th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
fuck joe bloe v.s. is a bunch of hoes sell out mother fuckers dont write but want to get paid off graff ….that shit is crazy to me………………………………………………….
November 9th, 2009 at 11:07 am
vandel squads are one fo the reasons why graff is so fun
November 16th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
hikki and ski…now there,s a pair of who had balls..thats my vote for the best cops that ever walked the tracks…thats the bottom line cause comet said so…goodnite..
November 25th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
“fuck the vandal squad…..its just a bunch of old bitches who were punked by taggers at one time so now they joined this shit 2 git back at them….”
this world for the most part is built on payback though (karma will get you one way or the other), wouldnt you agree.
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:46 am
Karma is wishful thinking and a crutch we have been preprogrammed into thinking to do right. just like religion and morals to set the social norm. so we can work in harmony n thrive as a world culture.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
This is a pretty wack interview anyway…Fuck these V.S. niggas
December 7th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
gmarris…
I was just checking my blog awstats and I found some traffic flowing from your blogabout Streets Are Saying Things – The Magazine ” Joe Rivera-Vandal … so I landed in your world Monday. me.Nice meeting you virtually. Hope you do all your best in up…